Nerf oder kein Nerf?

Grüße Paladine,

hier eigentlich ein Fall für die Rubrik "Aufgefallen!!!", finde ich folgenden Post von Yarkoh aus dem Amerikanischen Beta-Forum zu wertvoll um ihn nur zu verlinken.
An dieser Stelle einfach mal dreist kopiert, eine sehr interessante Berechnung zu den neuesten Veränderungen an AoW und Righteous Vengance:

The Art of War Math
Current Art of War:
Provides a 20% critical strike damage bonus to Judgements, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm.

New Art of War:
Provides an 8% damage bonus to Judgements, Crusader Strike, and Divine Storm.

Assuming a 6 minute fight.
Assuming a base melee critical strike of 33%.
Assuming a base Judgement critical strike of 58%
Assuming a static increase of 3% from Heart of the Crusader. 36% melee, 61% Judgement.
Assuming a base Crusader Strike of 1000 damage.
Assuming a base Divine Storm Damage of 900 damage.
Assuming a base Judgement damage of 1500 damage.
Excluding all other damage modifying talents.


6 minutes is 360 seconds.
45 Judgements. 27 will crit
60 Crusader Strike. 21 will crit
36 Divine Storms. 13 will crit

Judgement Examination:
Old System Damage Totals Judgements:
18 normal Judgements @ 1500 damage for a total of 27,000
27 critical strike Judgements @ 220% damage for a total of 89,100 (3300 per hit)
Total: 116,100

New System Damage Totals Judgements:
18 normal Judgements @ 1620 damage for a total of 29,160
27 critical strike Judgements @ 200% damage for a total of 87,480 (3240 per hit)
Total: 116,640

The TLDR Summary:
Total damage increased by 540 over the course of 6 minutes
Total damage increased by .05%
Total normal damage increased by 8%
Total critical damage decreased by 1.8%

Summary: I’m actually surprised on this one. Considering GC said the damage should hold upwards in the 40% critical strike, I expected a 61% critical strike to destroy this. If you have any corrections for the math above, please feel free to comment in this article, or post in Beta Thread.

Crusader Strike Examination:
Old System Damage Totals Crusader Strike:
39 normal strikes @ 1000 damage for a total of 39,000
21 critical strikes @ 220% damage for a total of 46,200 (2200 per hit)
Total: 85200

New System Damage Totals Crusader Strike:
39 normal strikes @ 1080 damage for a total of 42,120
21 critical strikes @ 200% damage for a total of 45,360 (2160 per hit)
Total: 87480

The TLDR Summary:
Total damage increased by 2280 over the course of 6 minutes
Total damage increased by 2.6%
Total normal damage increased by 8%
Total critical damage decreased by 1.8%

Summary: Not as bad as I was originally thinking. 1.8% critical nerf, vs a 2.6% overall buff.

Divine Storm Examination:
Old System Damage Totals Divine Storm:
23 normal strikes @ 900 damage for a total of 20,700
13 critical strikes @ 220% damage for a total of 25,740 (1980 per hit)
Total: 46,440

New System Damage Totals Divine Storm:
23 normal strikes @ 972 damage for a total of 22,356
13 critical strikes @ 200% damage for a total of 25,272 (1944 per hit)
Total: 47,628

The TLDR Summary:
Total damage increased by 1188 over the course of 6 minutes
Total damage increased by 2.4%
Total normal damage increased by 8%
Total critical damage decreased by 1.8%

Summary: Again, when the numbers are applied on this level I actually find myself not being upset by the changes thus far. Overall we actually come out ahead, with a minor hit to our burst. (A total decrease of 136 damage through 1 rotation of all crits, while a 272 increase on a normal through 1 rotation of all normal strikes.)

The Righteous Vengeance Math
Current Righteous Vengeance:
Increases critical damage bonus of your Judgement and Divine Storm spells by 25%

New Righteous Vengeance (or what we know.)
GhostCrawler wrote: It should end up at something like 10% of the critical damage each tick for 4 ticks of 2 seconds each (+40% and 8 sec total).

Assuming a 6 minute fight.
Assuming a base melee critical strike of 33%.
Assuming a base Judgement critical strike of 58%
Assuming a static increase of 3% from Heart of the Crusader. 36% melee, 61% Judgement.
Assuming a base Divine Storm Damage of 900 damage.
Assuming a base Judgement damage of 1500 damage.
Including the old and new Art of War

6 minutes is 360 seconds.

45 Judgements. 27 will crit, 108 tics of 10% critical strike damage
36 Divine Storms. 13 will crit 52 tics of 10% critical strike damage

Judgement Examination:
Old System Damage Totals Judgements:
18 normal Judgements @ 1500 damage for a total of 27,000
27 critical strike Judgements @ 245% damage for a total of 99,225 (3675 per hit)
Total: 126,225

New System Damage Totals Judgements:
18 normal Judgements @ 1620 damage for a total of 29,160
27 critical strike Judgements @ 200% damage for a total of 87,480 (3240 per hit)
108 tics at 324 damage for a total of 34,992
Total: 151,632

The TLDR Summary:
Total damage increased by 25,407 over the course of 6 minutes
Total damage increased by 16.75%
Total normal damage increased by 8%
Total critical damage decreased by 11.8%

Summary: It is a Massive Total damage increase buff. “Why?” you might ask. This is to make up for the damage lost from Divine Storms damage potentially literally being cut in half after our hotfix nerf 24 hours after the 3.0 go love.

Divine Storm Examination:
Old System Damage Totals Divine Storm:
23 normal strikes @ 900 damage for a total of 20,700
13 critical strikes @ 245% damage for a total of 28,665 (2205 per hit)
Total: 49365

New System Damage Totals Divine Storm:
23 normal strikes @ 972 damage for a total of 22,356
13 critical strikes @ 200% damage for a total of 25,272 (1944 per hit)
52 tics at 194 damage for a total of 10,088

Total: 57,716
The TLDR Summary:
Total damage increased by 8,351 over the course of 6 minutes
Total damage increased by 14.46%
Total normal damage increased by 8%
Total critical damage decreased by 11.8%

Summary: Here is the spell that all of this is really attached to. What used to be the Paladins battle cry, causing 1500 normal hits to 4 nearby enemies.


Suggestions and Recommendations to the Developers of Blizzard:
Right now, Paladins are concerned about their PvP viability. I think this math shows that we may still have a place in your common instance run still. Considering we don’t really know much about the Righteous Vengeance changes ‘yet’ here are a few thing I’d suggest.

1.) Ghostcrawler, your talking about have 4 tics over the course of 8 seconds, on a 2 second tic timer. As I see it, that would be.
Seconds – DoT timing
0 – Critical strike
2 – tic
4 – tic
6 – tic
8 – tic
My recommendation, to perhaps eliviate the concerns for most retribution paladins, is to change this DoT into a “Damage on ground 0 DoT”. This would essentially allow a retribution paladin to maintain a 10% critical strike damage bonus for the first his that makes a critical strike. The DoT timer would look something like
Second – DoT timing
0 – Critical strike and tic
2 – tic
4 – tic
6 – tic

I would also recommend making sure the DoT is a physical based DoT. If it is going to be the damage that replaces the loss of Divine Storm, then it shouldn’t be easily dispelable or removed.

2.) Divine Storm – Most retribution paladins feel they’re getting ripped off on their 51 talent point spell, and that it’s emulating whirlwind far too much. I know this isn’t something Blizzard wants to portray, so I recommend the following additional changes to the Divine Storm spell.

• Have the healing based on the Divine Storms base damage. Regardless of how much Divine Storm is mitigated by armor, the healing stays the same and scales with Divine Storms base damage.
  And/or
• Have the healing scale based off of spell power. A simple give and take for the mitigation now present in this ‘physical’ attack.

Hope you found this article be informative.

Aus diesem Artikel ist zu schlußfolgern, dass zwar der Burstdamage ein wenig generft wurde, aber sowohl AoW als auch vor allem das neue Righteous Vengance ein großes Mehr an konstantem Schaden bringen. Also eigentlich das was wir schon seit langem fordern oder etwa nicht?? Selbst wenn sich der DoT nur auf den Bonus an Kritschaden bezieht (also die Hälfte des verursachten Schadens), reicht dies aus um den Verlust an Schaden durch den DS-Nerf (Phys.Dmg statt HolyDmg) aufzufangen.
So ist es im PvE eher Buff als Nerf, und im Arena-PvP ebenfalls, abhängig von der Spielweise und dem Setup natürlich. Einzig im Bg und Solo-PvP ist es ein eindeutiges Nerf, da dort in der Regel alles vom Burst abhängt.
Da dieser auf lvl 80 und auf Grunde der Änderungen an Resilience in Zukunft eh nicht mehr so hoch sein wird wie aktuell auf den Servern, bietet es sich also an, vor allem in der Arena wegzukommen von einer Spielweise des "umbürstens" zu einer Spielweise des, ich nenn es mal "kollektiven Überlebens". Wie und ob es erfolgreich sein kann wird sich in naher Zukunft, noch 3 Wochen bis WotLK-Release, zeigen.
Interessant wird auch die Mechanik des DoTs sein. Funktioniert er wie "Tiefe Wunden" beim Krieger, und resettet sich bei jedem Crit, oder wird er stacken? Ich denke dies ist die entscheidende Frage bei der Bewertung der Änderungen an AoW und RV.
Leider werden wir dies wohl nicht vor Release des Addons feststellen können.

Was bleibt ist doch noch die Frage nach dem Burst. Angenommen, man wäre doch weiterhin maßgeblich, vor allem in der Arena, abhängen vom Burstdamage, wie momentan eins lang eins breit in sämtlichen Paladinforen diskutiert wird, wäre hier mein Vorschlag an Blizzard, diese Abhängikeit zu verringern.

RV -> 1 Punkt-Talent, 40 Punkte benötigt, neben CS, benötigt CS.
Eure kritischen Treffer durch Kreuzfahrerstoß, Göttlicher Sturm oder Richturteil reißen tiefe Wunden bei eurem Gegner, sodass er 10% des gesamten Schadens des Treffers über 8 Sekunden erleidet.

Dies würde den Kreuzfahrerstoß erheblich aufwerten und Platz schaffen für ein neues Talent an Stelle des jetzigen RV.
Dort könnte sich z.B. ein netter Sloweffekt ansiedeln, der automatisch bei einem kritischen Treffer gewirkt wird und bis zu 5 mal stackt für je 6% (pro Skillpunkt wird ein Stack freigeschaltet). Das wären 30% slow + 15% speed durch PoJ.
Damit kann man einfach am Gegner bleiben und ist nicht so stark auf Burst angewiesen.
Außerdem würde dies die "Durch dauernden Kampf stärker werden"-Komponente verbessern.

In diesem Sinne
~Pat